Unit 1 Reflections

[Admin]

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

[Deborah Ayers]

As an American teacher who prepares students for the CAE exam, I can safely say this course is exactly what I've been needing. It is reaffirming many of the ideas I have been forming over the last decade about the differences/similarities in British English and American English. I'm also hoping that what I learn here can help my students grasp the concept of pluralistic ideas.

I sometimes struggle with my Swiss-German speaking students when they say: "Why can't there be just one English?". It's so weird that they complain seeing as their German is mostly not understood by other German speakers. I think this course will do a lot in helping me find ways to open their minds as well as my own.

[sameerco1971]

May 7, 2020 17:58:28 GMT Admin said:

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

Yes, you are right. It would be very boring if there is only one dress code. People are naturally different. Therefore, each one has a different style.  

[sameerco1971]

Yes, you are right. It would be very boring if there is only one dress code. People are naturally different. Therefore, each one has a different style.

[Kunlong Jin]

Excuse me for giving an analogy here first of all before I make my comments. I am wondering how many people eat MacDonald's in different shops around the world. Through travelling and studying these years, I have eat burgers in China, Japan, Russia, Australia, UK and India. Indeed, it is amazing to see the same type of food tastes different in various regions and countries. For example, Big Mac is common burger sold in almost all stores around the world. I found Japan has got the wasabi sauce within it for one of the flavour of course. India have the curry flavour. Right, they taste different not only because they want to be different in flavours, but also they need to change a little bit to meet the local people's needs. This is one of the business strategies though. If you cannot meet customers' needs, they will be no business in that areas.

Back to English learning and English teaching, we must have a standard English in the front because that is what we are going to teach our next generation right way to speak and write. Either for exam-oriented purposes or professional career development. However, we have to bear in mind that taking the various of English usage is extremely important because it is part of their culture and identity. If one has got an accent, Chinese accent, Indian accent, he/she does not need to change it or pursue a native English accent because it is one part of themselves. Nobody should sacrifice their cultural and identity simply by learning a new language and adopting a new culture. You can absolutely try to be involved in the English language and culture as much as possible but stick to a standard criteria and strictly follow the rules are really not necessarily what we, as a non-native speakers of English, should aim for.

[Daniel Palmer]

May 7, 2020 17:58:28 GMT Admin said:

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

I taught in South Korea a few years ago, and at the time the government (and most private schools) would only employ teachers with a 'native' passport (ie UK, US, AUS, NZ, IRE), which included citizens of South Africa. As far as I remember, English is the first language of only about 10% of the South African population, and it is heavily influenced by other languages in the area; my wife is a 'native' English-speaking South African, and a great deal of the vocabulary, expressions and even grammatical differences she uses still throw me after 8 years of marriage! The point is, just before we left Korea, the government was tightening up the 'native speaker' requirements, and South Africans would be required to prove that they were educated almost completely in English.

All of the South Africans I have met have been very proud of their unique form of English, which in many ways reflects the multi-cultural, pluri-linguistic nature of their society; the features of of other local languages used also helps with communicative and social cohesion amongst the speakers of 11 different languages there and a local lingua franca, and helps bridge the imagined boundaries. I imagine this can be the case between 'non-native'speakers of other varieties of English too, where unique constructs can help show the differences between speakers, although I would say that an accepted Standard English (or Standard Englishes) is more likely to remain the basis of proficiency tests; I believe that even if more varieties were catered for, there would still be a hierarchy of prestige afforded to each of them.

[severoc]

May 20, 2020 0:45:07 GMT Kunlong Jin said:

Excuse me for giving an analogy here first of all before I make my comments. I am wondering how many people eat MacDonald's in different shops around the world. Through travelling and studying these years, I have eat burgers in China, Japan, Russia, Australia, UK and India. Indeed, it is amazing to see the same type of food tastes different in various regions and countries. For example, Big Mac is common burger sold in almost all stores around the world. I found Japan has got the wasabi sauce within it for one of the flavour of course. India have the curry flavour. Right, they taste different not only because they want to be different in flavours, but also they need to change a little bit to meet the local people's needs. This is one of the business strategies though. If you cannot meet customers' needs, they will be no business in that areas.

Back to English learning and English teaching, we must have a standard English in the front because that is what we are going to teach our next generation right way to speak and write. Either for exam-oriented purposes or professional career development. However, we have to bear in mind that taking the various of English usage is extremely important because it is part of their culture and identity. If one has got an accent, Chinese accent, Indian accent, he/she does not need to change it or pursue a native English accent because it is one part of themselves. Nobody should sacrifice their cultural and identity simply by learning a new language and adopting a new culture. You can absolutely try to be involved in the English language and culture as much as possible but stick to a standard criteria and strictly follow the rules are really not necessarily what we, as a non-native speakers of English, should aim for.

That's exactly what I think about it. We must have a SE especially when we talk about academics and professional reasons. That is the english that must be taught in schools to both native and non-native speakers. Us, as non-natives, are the one that should go out there and learn more conversations strategies if that's what we're aiming for.

[Kerrilyn Thacker]

I think there is a distinction to be made between non-standard English and English containing developmental errors (or the normal errors that occur as we acquire a new language). Dialects follow rules for grammar and word use in the same way that standard English does. As a speaker of Australian English working predominantly with English speakers from the Northern hemisphere, I am aware that my use of conventions varies from the standard American usage especially.

Further, language use is constantly changing and evolving. Just look at all the terms we are using now because of the covid-19 pandemic. I personally love variety in language and the unique word usage found in specific dialects.

[Tarveen Walia]

May 25, 2020 6:31:46 GMT Kerrilyn Thacker said:

I think there is a distinction to be made between non-standard English and English containing developmental errors (or the normal errors that occur as we acquire a new language). Dialects follow rules for grammar and word use in the same way that standard English does. As a speaker of Australian English working predominantly with English speakers from the Northern hemisphere, I am aware that my use of conventions varies from the standard American usage especially.

Further, language use is constantly changing and evolving. Just look at all the terms we are using now because of the covid-19 pandemic. I personally love variety in language and the unique word usage found in specific dialects.

I agree with you.Very often, non native speakers' / near native speakers' varieties of English are looked down upon as being non-standard English, therefore inferior, and unacceptable. 

[Tarveen Walia]

May 7, 2020 17:58:28 GMT Admin said:

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

Re your last comment on proficiency test accommodating for local varieties, I recently read somewhere ( unfortunately don't remember where, and so can't quote), that the IELTS Speaking test will look at candidates' being able to achieve 'international intelligibility' instead of only 'intelligibility' in the Pronunciation profile.This is a step forward from penalizing candidates for failing to produce accents that have an effect on intelligibility ( taken to mean -for the native speaker). 

[erenkenny]

Textbooks are very standardized. Not many books, as far as I am aware, include different variety of English. Still many countries ask for a native speaker although NNS has a good command of English in both written and spoken. I agree language is continuously changing. Where I work as a location there is a strong accent and dialect of the region (Merseyside). But students gain the accent and dialect although I don't speak the dialect. They correct the standard English of mine (if we consider I speak Standard English)

[TeacherBB]

I'm new to the course and am really enjoying the introduction to plurilithic ideas of language. Whilst I totally support this idea in terms of the ontological, ethical, and practical/professional dimensions, the devil's advocate in me questions the socio-cultural possibility of eliminating hierarchies of language variations.

People are always drawn to prestige and power, especially when they are paying money to potentially 'acquire' this through an accent or association with a particular culture or country. I am a British teacher and I would personally love to see all regional accents and dialects given the same value in the classroom and presented as equally valid models to follow. However, in my experience my students just do not want this! They want to acquire the 'standard' Southern accents the see in series like Downton Abbey, associated with the upper class and what is viewed as 'elegant' or 'sophisticated'... I think that changing hierarchies would involve sustained work far beyond the classroom, breaking down stereotypes in the media and film and showcasing more global/ non-'standard' English users in a positive light.

[TJ]

Having read through some of the comments and considered the points made on the course so far, I wonder if a ‘use of language’ portfolio might be a possible alternative to examination of ‘standard English’? Just ‘blue sky’ thinking perhaps and I haven’t got any further than comparing the academic qualification we have in the UK, such as A-Levels for example, and more practical, evidence based diplomas. With my advanced ESOL class, I hate marking because I’m supposed to highlight all corrections (and I understand why) but I’m really just asking myself, ‘can I understand the point’ and ‘what impact does this piece of writing create’? I hate that learners think their work is being judged on how many commas are in the right place. Especially when I can’t write even one sentence in Arabic or Lithuanian.

[abdisyam]

May 7, 2020 17:58:28 GMT Admin said:

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

I also think that it is very hard for English varieties in the outer or expanding circles to be accepted in schools and universities. There might be a degree of acceptance of accented English in terms of oral communication, but in academic writing the use of standard English will probably remain unchanged. I am not sure if accent equals variety, but IELTS has introduced the term intelligibility and the effect of L1 accent in one of its descriptors for speaking rubric. I know some friends who have strong accented English and got high IELST speaking score. 

[Nidhi Lakhisarani]

May 7, 2020 17:58:28 GMT Admin said:

In terms of how sustainable monolithic ideas about English are, I can confidently now say that in our globalized world they are not sustainable. It is unrealistic to expect that in a classroom in which the teacher is a "non-native" speaker and their students are Chinese, Mexican, Saudi Arabian, German, Dutch, French etc. everyone's English will be the same, uniform and "standard". And it would be quite boring if it were, wouldn't it?

It is still a struggle in classrooms in the US or the UK for instance, or in South Korea or China as well (some years ago schools in these countries were requiring that English teachers applying to teach there have a passport from an "English-speaking country" like US, UK, Australia etc. They might still be requiring this), because I think that even if one tried to teach a standardized form on English, it would not 'come out' as such in the majority of learners, but it still expected, especially in a highly academic context. And because teachers want their students to get into a US or UK university, they will teach the English needed for them to do so. I suppose one must always adapt to their context.

With the ELT industry being so profitable, it is hard to imagine English varieties being totally accepted and taught in schools and universities, but I do hope that with the high number of NNS teachers and also different student needs, that this will change in time. Hard to imagine the big proficiency tests accommodating for local varieties though...thoughts on this?

I agree. Being an Indian teacher teaching IELTS, I come across students with different mother tongues and different age groups along with different levels of language. It becomes extremely difficult to make the class structure, uniform. I really hope that English is taken as more of a language and less of a standard to measure intelligence.