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Post by profebeth on May 31, 2020 22:17:34 GMT
As some above have alluded to, I think "standard" refers perhaps to a core set of generally accepted rules, such as some grammar rules. I am from the US and I'm thinking about how BEV has its own grammar rules, pronunciation, and other differences when compared to my Midwestern way of speaking. It is mostly intelligible, as are other less familiar dialects, such as those from the deep south or northeast. Vocabulary differences certainly exist (I say "soda" instead of "pop") but are less critical than use of verb tenses, for example, considering the goal of message comprehension.
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Post by ilona varga on Jun 1, 2020 19:16:31 GMT
In Hungary, where I live, there are several dialects, which may differ from each other in vocabulary or pronunciation. E.g. there are different words for vegetables, toys, food, tools in different reagions of the country, and inhabitants of other regions don't understand or use them. We learn these varieties at school, but it's impossible to remember all of them. Thre are differences in pronunciation and grammar, as well. Sometimes some pronunciations are funny, but I love them. The difference in grammar is a bit annoying.
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Post by Monica RP on Jun 2, 2020 10:21:31 GMT
I come from Sardinia, an Italian island, where many dialects are spoken. However, many islanders believe that 'Sardinian' is a language, but nobody seems to agree on what version of Sardinian is the actual language (and which part of the island comes from) and what ones are the dialects! It sounds very complicated, I know!
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Post by Philip Kruger on Jun 3, 2020 10:49:06 GMT
In South Africa we have eleven official languages with English being the legal lingua franca. With this variety of languages, many having strictly geographical origins, and still having their bases in the original regions, it can be a veritable Tower of Babel, especially with the migration to metropolitan areas. Some of the languages have similar origins (Nguni languages like Xhosa and Zulu) but have over time become unintelligible to others, this is now changing as words from the other languages are being assimilated and becoming standard usage. Fanagalo, a pidgin language based mainly on Zulu with a good complement of English and Afrikaans are still used on the mines where there is a large number of migrant workers, not only from South Africa, but from other African countries. It is slowly being phased out in favour of local languages.
'Standard English' can be seen as a dialect of English, but it is often perceived as a 'super-dialect' that is aspired to by non-native speakers. I feel this limits the L2 (and possibly even L1) users of the language as they are more concerned about the 'correctness' of their English than about getting their ideas across.
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Tom Le Seelleur Lisburn, NI
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Post by Tom Le Seelleur Lisburn, NI on Jun 7, 2020 7:05:18 GMT
I speak what many people refer to as 'standard English' which some suggest is a southern English dialect / accent. At present I work in Northern Ireland where the 'standard English is northern Irish English and the differences between my standard and NI standard can be minimal as well as quite wide depending on what you are talking about and to who. I have found it particularly difficult to understand some people here as they speak a foreign English language to myself but I need to learn it if I wish to communicate, understand, fit in or just keep up with what people are saying.
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Post by Sally Urquhart on Jun 9, 2020 14:34:52 GMT
I am from the south of the UK and am guilty of teaching in RP. I don’t necessarily think that is the ‘right’ way, or that it is any better than other dialects. I am always fascinated by, and eager to learn about, dialects from other parts of the country such as when I’m at the pub with my Mancunian friends or visiting family in Scotland.
In my opinion, any dialect as a means of communication has value and one ‘Standard English’ should not be seen as more important than any other. I agree that ‘Standard English’ is a non-regional dialect, but also that it can be useful as a basis or rough guide for teaching, learning and communication. On the other hand, I am against using it as a barrier as it is so commonly used in this industry.
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Post by evarojo on Jun 11, 2020 15:26:49 GMT
Is it that when we call a language spoken by a large group of individuals a language has a better inherent value than if we call it a dialect? Again, I will mention my Valencian friends, for them Valencian is a language, no doubt about it. But it is sometimes referred as a dialect, which will come from Catalonian. When we study languages in Spain we make a difference between official languages: Spanish, Catalonian, Vask and Galician and dialects, a distinctive regional variety of Spanish like Andalusian. Dialects differ from the each other in vocabulary and accent. So, is it Valencian a language itself or a dialect from Catalonian? I am not from Valencia, I have heard Valencian and it has its simmilarities to Catalonian but I do not have the linguistic expertise to define it as a language or dialect. To me, again, it is a matter of political interest. Regional disputes are quite popular, I may say, in Spain currently. In the political field of power, naming Valencian a language makes the difference. I am more interested in the linguistic power of languages, how languages are living things that adapt themselves to the habitat they live within, in a Darwin's way of thinking.
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 20, 2020 14:30:26 GMT
Although I am British, I live in Spain and am very interested in the languages here. Apart from Castilian Spanish there are several other languages, some more widely recognized and spoken than others. Basque, Catalan, Galician, Asturiano, Arañes, Valenciano (although there is some debate about this and some consider this a dialect) Aragones and Asturleones. Apart from these, there any many dialects pertaining to the different regions, which some will vehemently proclaim are languages.
Is standard English just another dialect of the language? I believe it is. It is one of the many variations of English that exist, no more or less correct than the others despite this common misconception.
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Post by María on Jun 25, 2020 19:25:52 GMT
I think what matters is the fact of being able to communicate with others despite regional differences. As to "Standard English", I cannot imagine just one variety of English that could be considered "standard", since each country has their own dialect and regionalisms, and that is what makes languages so rich.
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Post by Ulla on Jul 23, 2020 13:38:42 GMT
I think it is important to remember, for teachers and learners, that the standard variety of any language is not inherently superior. It is the accepted standard because of historical developments. It is always interesting to explore regional varieties of a language, one that you are studying or even your first language.
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Post by Ulla on Jul 23, 2020 13:43:07 GMT
We have dialects in different regions of my country, the U.S., although most people unfamiliar with the world of linguistics and language education refer to them as "accents". I'm from the southern U.S. and I can hear someone in my hometown speak aloud and know if they are from my city, from the other side of my state, or from one of our neighboring states, sometimes by their phonology but also often based on their word choice. As a Spanish speaker, different dialects are a point of interest for me. I learned Spanish in the U.S. with a heavy focus on Mexican vocabulary and had to re-learn many words for their Chilean counterparts when I moved to Chile. The dialect here differs from other forms of Spanish in word choice, verb tense choice, specific verb conjugations, and a few phonetic details. There is no English-speaking region that doesn't have its own dialectical differences, and that makes it impossible to say that there is a standard English not specific to any given region. I feel that often when "standard" English is mentioned, what really is being communicated, perhaps in an underlying way, is "acceptable" English. The English spoken in my hometown in the southern U.S. is certainly not standard, because it is not spoken in most other places... But who exactly is the judge to say whose English gets to be considered the "standard"? The idea of a standard English seems simple on the surface but upon closer inspection, it reeks of privilege and gate-keeping. I agree. As another commenter said, standard English certainly has its uses as a basis for teaching, but we should remember that it is not a privileged variety beyond that.
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Post by miabae on Aug 1, 2020 16:55:51 GMT
I support the view that Standard English is just another dialect (non-regional, that is). Just like many people above, I also think each language is made of dialects. A funny example I can give is the name for a transparent file folder/a punched pocket in Russian. People in Moscow would call it a file; those in St. Petersburg would say it's a little pocket; in the Urals it's known as multifora = a punched [pocket]. All three names are valid in the business environment.
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Post by Rachel Dry on Aug 18, 2020 16:15:18 GMT
I would say that in the UK 'Standard English' used to refer to the dialect spoken by those in the South (although, even this is a misconception) and is now almost used as a kind of lingua franca; personally, I have real difficulty understanding some of my family from the North-East when they us their preferred accent and lexicon, and they take real pleasure in using 'the Queen's English'to bridge the gap and roll their eyes at me! I can completely relate to this in my own teaching. I am a native speaker of English and my roots are in the North East of England which has a very specific and recognisable dialect. But as an EFL teacher I did not feel it was 'correct' to teach students this slang/dialect, especially in pronunciation. Therefore I assume a more standardised pronunciation when teaching, so much so that my dialect has disappeared to make way for this very unique 'teaching' English idiolect which I believe is more representative of 'standard English'. An idiolect which is more appropriate for teaching non native speakers. Maybe this is wrong, but can I really teach young learners a specific local dialect of English and then send them out into the world to use this as a Lingua Franca?
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